Welcome to the ENT! Cyber security expert, Matt Quammen, joins Jeff, Karl and Nate to discuss the best ways small business owners can protect themselves from cyber fraud, theft, id theft, social engineering and more. Learn about some free tools as well as practical ideas. 1. Create a cyber plan 2. Use the plan to inform what you do daily and 3. Purchase cyber insurance, just in case. Matt shows us how to do more with less, perform a rapid security audit, and get the best bang for the buck. As a quick reminder, the Expert Network Team provides free consultations. We would love the opportunity to be of service to you or someone you care about. Just scroll the liner notes to contact one of our experts or today’s guest. And please share this podcast with anyone who you think might find it interesting. As always, it is good to have an expert on your side. — Today’s guest: Matt Quammen Optimize Cyber
Audio file
Episode-107-cyber-business-sound-only.mp3
Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker 1
Welcome to the expert Network team podcast.
00:00:18 Speaker 2
Welcome to your ex.
00:00:20 Speaker 2
For Team podcast, we are back for another episode on cyber Liability. We've got a full house here again this afternoon. Your favorite host Jeff Pearlman. **** here with one digital as well as Carl Frank is in the house here at A and I financial Carl.
00:00:41 Speaker 1
Take steps. It's glad to be second place.
00:00:41 Speaker 2
Good to see you, man.
00:00:43 Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah, exactly 1 I'm never hosting. It's always. It's always. You were Nate. So I just thought I'd throw that in. Yeah, little.
00:00:49 Speaker 1
It is a good question.
00:00:51 Speaker 1
Good.
00:00:51 Speaker 2
Anyway, and then we've got Nathan Merrill joining us from a distance as well. Nathan with good speed. And Merrill, thanks for joining us here today, Buddy.
00:01:01 Speaker 3
Absolutely good to be here.
00:01:03 Speaker 2
Thanks man. Awesome. And yeah, we have a return guest here. Matt Qualman from up to my cyber is going to join us this afternoon to talk more about what we can do as business owners to protect our cyber liability exposure, our our.
00:01:23 Speaker 2
Technical risk exposures. And so Matt, welcome to the podcast here this afternoon. Good to see you.
00:01:31
Thanks Jeff.
00:01:34 Speaker 2
Fantastic. Well, without further ado, let's let's do that. Let's just go ahead and jump in. We do know.
00:01:39 Speaker 2
That we have.
00:01:41
Could.
00:01:41 Speaker 2
Few business owners that join us on the in the listening population here.
00:01:48 Speaker 2
Of our pod.
00:01:48 Speaker 2
Podcast. And so if you own a business and you own a computer, which I would imagine is probably every one of us, this podcast is certainly for you. We're going to talk a little bit more.
00:02:01 Speaker 2
About.
00:02:02 Speaker 2
Risk management and also risk transfer as it relates to cyber liability exposure. So Matt, why don't you give us a quick intro of yourself and also your company and and then we'll kind of move into the topic here this afternoon.
00:02:21 Speaker 4
Thanks for having me, Jeff and Jeff, Carl and and Nate Matcom and optimized Cyber, we're a cyber risk management firm, offensive security and and. But don't worry, we're not going to get very technical today. We're going to talk at a high level about cyber risk management. This is not going to be a techie podcast.
00:02:39 Speaker 4
And the good news is, a lot of the gaps that we're seeing with organizations when it comes to cyber risk is not necessarily in the, you know, in the tech corridor. There's a lot of business operations that need to change for people to better protect themselves.
00:02:57 Speaker 4
And and prevent financial losses to cyberattacks.
00:03:01 Speaker 3
Great. On that note and just to kind of kick off here, you know we we addressed this a little bit when it came to family security and individual security.
00:03:11 Speaker 3
And you mentioned that this isn't going to be a techie, you're not pushing some magic product that's going to solve all of your tech woes and security concerns, which is the bigger concern in an organization. Your actual hardware software conduits or is it the employees and their?
00:03:29 Speaker 3
Ignorance or malfeasance that causes more institutional problems when it comes to cybersecurity.
00:03:36 Speaker 4
Well, it would depend, which is a terrible answer on a podcast where we're the experts.
00:03:40 Speaker 3
Perfect lawyer answer though so.
00:03:45 Speaker 4
It would depend on the size of the organization, things like that. But broadly speaking, and anyone outside the Fortune 500, my answer is going to be neither. My answer is how you bank and your financial, how you operate your financial side.
00:04:02 Speaker 4
Everyone and it makes better Hollywood movies, right? The hacker types who come in and take over your network and do a big scary note, ransom note and demand your money, or else they're going to hold you for ransom, and you can't operate as a business. That makes for great movies. And that does happen quite a bit.
00:04:22 Speaker 4
So I'm not downplaying the ransomware threat at all, but five times as much money is lost every year to financial fraud.
00:04:31 Speaker 4
And the good news is, it's not a tech solution. My favorite basketball coach, Tom Thibodeau. Maybe not my favorite, but you know a.
00:04:39
He's good.
00:04:39 Speaker 4
Guy.
00:04:41 Speaker 4
A guy who's, uh, a good microphone, good on the microphone, for sure. He always his favorite phrase is the answers are in the mud. And that's true of cyber risk. It's not. There is no magic bullet. Anyone who knows about cybersecurity will tell you that. But what we neglect most is the the.
00:05:02 Speaker 4
Day-to-day operational things that prevent an attacker from stealing your money. So how do attackers steal organizations money, let's say Carl.
00:05:13 Speaker 4
Carl and Jeff are doing business together, Jeff.
00:05:16 Speaker 4
Carl owes 200 grand to one digital and Jeff is expecting an invoice from Jeff.
00:05:23 Speaker 4
If I'm in Jeffs e-mail.
00:05:25 Speaker 4
All I have to do is take that invoice, change the checking and routing number, send it from Jeffs e-mail to Carl.
00:05:34 Speaker 4
For a legitimate transaction that that he's expecting the right dollar amount, same format and it's coming from a legit e-mail.
00:05:43 Speaker 4
And then the money gets wired to the bad guy. 200 grand? That doesn't make for a great movie because.
00:05:48 Speaker 1
Gone terrifying.
00:05:49 Speaker 4
Yeah, well, be, you know, we could call it gone in 60 seconds, but that movie has already been made.
00:05:56 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:05:57 Speaker 3
It wouldn't be a long movie.
00:05:58 Speaker 4
It wouldn't be a long movie. It would be pretty boring now, although there is this movie beekeeper where Jason Statham helps a a lady gets taken advantage of and he goes and kills.
00:06:09 Speaker 4
Them all. So.
00:06:09 Speaker 4
That's spoiler alert, but I think.
00:06:11 Speaker 4
You know that in the movie.
00:06:13 Speaker 1
Alright, I'll watch that one.
00:06:15 Speaker 3
Sounds like a roll for Liam Neeson.
00:06:17 Speaker 4
Absolutely so.
00:06:20 Speaker 4
What what we need to what we need to do a better job of and here to optimize cyber we place an emphasis on this. I would say as much or more than any other organization I'm aware of is teaching.
00:06:33 Speaker 4
Talking about cyber risk to the CFO's office because if you're relying on your IT team to prevent this from happening, you you've got no shot because I even for for less sophisticated attacks I can text Carl and say, hey, it's Jeff. I need to switch the checking and routing.
00:06:53 Speaker 4
And if Carla's totally unaware of of cyber risk and sends that money out.
00:06:59 Speaker 4
All it was was a text message to a cell phone and there's nothing your tech guys can do to prevent that. So what the things instead that we need to talk about, especially as business owners, where do you bank?
00:07:11 Speaker 4
Do you warehouse? Do you only use one account where you receive money and and you're sharing that checking and routing number for other people to pay you? So now those numbers are out there. Do you have all your money sitting in one account that can then be sent out immediately? Are your do you have unlimited wires open? Do you have unlimited ACH is open.
00:07:32 Speaker 4
How much can somebody steal? You know, from an ATM?
00:07:37 Speaker 4
Things like that. How how do we have any callback functions as an organization where let's say it's an invoice over 20,000 Carl Carl sets that limit for his business and says anything over 20,000 you have to call. You have to call the company representative and make sure that.
00:07:56 Speaker 4
We have the right information before we send money out, things like that, that are again non tech answers to these technical, you know, technical attacks.
00:08:07 Speaker 4
So I think.
00:08:08 Speaker 3
The institution, for example, maybe this is what you're talking about. The institution we bank with has a thing called positive pay or something like that, where we actually have to upload to their system all the outgoing ACH's or that sort of thing. So they match and then or we have to confirm any ACH request or.
00:08:09
Yeah.
00:08:27 Speaker 3
Or transmittal that isn't otherwise positively confirmed, is that kind of what you're talking about.
00:08:33 Speaker 4
100% positive pay is a great tool. Any checks in Achs you have to approve them before they go out. People need to to slow down when they're banking and and stop.
00:08:44 Speaker 4
Don't rush the process, right? Let's let's have some interventions and opportunities to stop it before money goes out the door. One other thing I'd add, Nate. That'll be right up your alley is. Let's have. Let's make sure to mitigate exposure on our end too. Where on our invoices we put that we will never change our checking and routing.
00:09:05 Speaker 4
Via e-mail so that if there ever is a dispute because there's nothing, maybe there's nothing that can prevent you from me spinning up a an e-mail. That's good speed merrill@gmail.com or.
00:09:21 Speaker 4
I just take out the speed right? Good.
00:09:23 Speaker 3
So in that order are are Click to pay functions on your website generally secure or are there concerns about having access to payment mechanisms that are client facing? Is is that a good idea, bad idea or?
00:09:39 Speaker 3
It depends.
00:09:41 Speaker 4
It's a well, it does depend a little bit, but generally it's a good idea.
00:09:45
OK.
00:09:45 Speaker 3
OK.
00:09:45
And.
00:09:46 Speaker 4
Make sure you're working with a trusted third party and that you've done your due diligence. That's something that we help organizations with as well is how do you audit third parties to make sure that they are doing a good job on the cybersecurity front before you let them cause problems for you? One one payment provider can AM technologies.
00:10:06 Speaker 4
Does a great job with with the small and mid sized business community and and they've achieved a they've done a lot on the security front. They're a client, so I can.
00:10:16 Speaker 4
Mention that.
00:10:19 Speaker 4
But you want to make sure that you're using a trusted third parties that you're not just downloading software off the Internet, or you know.
00:10:28 Speaker 4
Writing these things yourselves when you don't intend to, to ever secure them right? So you got to be mindful of how you're using that Click to pay functionality, but it's very helpful, especially you know, when people have to pay.
00:10:41 Speaker 4
Their lawyer, their insurance bill. You know your guys's businesses are all right.
00:10:46 Speaker 4
Right in the great market where where paying via website is is really helpful.
00:10:52 Speaker 2
So I'd like to just pause real quick and talk a little bit about optimized cyber and and and how they've really served us as one digital and and placing risk. And then also how they've served our clients. I think super important for business owners out there.
00:11:12 Speaker 2
I understand that.
00:11:14 Speaker 2
Yeah, there were. You know, it wasn't that long ago. Four or five years ago or we could just go ahead and apply for a site reliability coverage and pretty much get it. Regardless, if you had any type of checks and balances in place or firewalls or anything like that, it's just basically A1 or A2 page application. We did it online. We just went ahead and.
00:11:34 Speaker 2
And got coverage that is not the world we live in today. And so one of the biggest challenges I have when it comes to transferring risk such as cyber liability to a yeah to a insurance company.
00:11:48 Speaker 2
Money is now getting these companies underwritten, and so we've had to partner with Matt and his team over at optimized Cyber to basically sometimes work with our clients prior to us even writing coverage and making sure that these clients have the checks and balances in place, the processes the.
00:12:09 Speaker 2
Procedures. You know the the financial, you know, process procedure with regards to transferring money, you know, yeah, to wiring money, things like that. I mean, if this stuff isn't in place, it's pretty difficult for us right now to find an insurance company that's willing to insure you.
00:12:29 Speaker 2
So that's why it's been a a great partnership for us. And when I, you know refer a guy like Matt and over at optimize.
00:12:41 Speaker 2
You know, it's part of the value added, you know, services that we at one digital bring and it does lead to us being able to actually write coverage for that client. But you know and and all the times that we've referred Matt and his team over to clients of ours you know the value is much more, I mean they they feel like.
00:13:01 Speaker 2
They've put some checks and balances in place and Matt maybe talk a little bit more about the services that you guys offer because I I love the consulting side that you're doing, but also the penetration testing, which is super important and these are some of the things that we.
00:13:16 Speaker 2
You know, have to put down on applications to get cyber liability insurance, but if you wouldn't mind maybe just bragging on you know, optimize a little bit and kind of some of the value added services that that you guys bring when when you engage a client.
00:13:30 Speaker 4
Yeah, I'd be happy to. One thing I'd I'd add to the insurance discussion, the cyber insurance discussion.
00:13:36 Speaker 4
As as you want to be able to, you want to have your cyber risk management program together so that you can qualify for a policy. But there's also a lot of bad policies out there, so you want to make sure that you're getting a the best bang for your buck, right? You don't want the cheapest policy, but you do want a good value. You want to be in that top risk category so that.
00:13:58 Speaker 4
So that you have the best options and then.
00:14:02 Speaker 4
And then also, yeah, being able to qualify for the right limits, so and working with a a professional like like like the pros at one digital can help steer you away from some of these carriers that you know that that maybe aren't aren't all that they seem and help you sort out the the truth of your options.
00:14:23 Speaker 4
From an optimized cyber perspective, or really from a business owner perspective?
00:14:28 Speaker 4
There's cyber risk management comes down to three things #1 having a cyber risk management plan, right? Having a having your hands around, having your arms around cyber risks and having a plan for them. That doesn't mean you're bulletproof, but setting up a plan, setting up a strategy ahead of time.
00:14:50 Speaker 4
You can pay off massive dividends because there's a lot of money that you can waste if you just go start buying stuff today.
00:14:56 Speaker 1
There's.
00:14:57 Speaker 4
No limit to the amount of cybersecurity spend you can. You can stumble your way into without a without a road map, without a plan. So what we do, especially with our rapid security audit, is help people quickly and rapidly mature their cyber. Their cyber risk program. You come out of that with an understanding.
00:15:18 Speaker 4
From an executive level, not from a.
00:15:21 Speaker 4
Technical in the weeds type level, but you come out of there with an understanding of all your cyber risks. What you can mitigate, what you need to transfer, and what you need to be doing on a day-to-day basis. So.
00:15:34 Speaker 4
To go back to the big categories #1, which we.
00:15:36 Speaker 4
Provide.
00:15:38 Speaker 4
Cyber Risk Management Program development program planning. So have a plan #2 have that plan. Inform what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. That's your 24/7 IT security operations as I mentioned.
00:15:55 Speaker 4
You can say.
00:15:57 Speaker 4
I was going to say a fortune, but you can save a lot of money, a fortune to some people.
00:16:04 Speaker 4
When when you go in and you have a strategy to mitigate risks, not everything in the cyber realm means you have to spend more money. There's a lot of things that can be done based on a configuration change.
00:16:17 Speaker 4
And doing more with less to keep yourself safe. So going in with that strategy is going to help you avoid a lot of wasteful spend that that we see every day in clients. And then #3 #3 is your cyber insurance program. Cyber insurance is is one of the best bang for your buck. If I if I look at it as a security control.
00:16:38 Speaker 4
It's one of the best bang for your buck things out there. So number one, I have a cyber risk plan. Have somebody that you can lean on as an advisor have that plan. Inform what you do from an IT and security standpoint on a day-to-day basis.
00:16:56 Speaker 4
And then have the right levels of insurance for for your organization. That doesn't mean you're never going to have an incident, but that means you're ready. And that means you haven't been negligent. We, you know, we live in a world where the Pentagon gets to has has cyber incidents. So nobody is expecting nobody expects your company.
00:17:16 Speaker 4
Your your mid market company, your SMB company to never have an incident, but by preparing for these things, it's the difference between somebody who.
00:17:27 Speaker 4
Who, who has 30 days, 45 days of downtime in a prior life, I worked in the incident response realm and and I can tell.
00:17:35 Speaker 4
You.
00:17:36 Speaker 4
That's not uncommon where people are are down.
00:17:39 Speaker 4
Their computers are down and they're not able to operate for 30.
00:17:42 Speaker 4
45 days.
00:17:43 Speaker 4
Ask yourself what that would mean for your business. If you're prepared and we're resilient cyber insurance.
00:17:45 Speaker 1
Yeah, that would. Yeah, it would be good.
00:17:51 Speaker 2
Matt, real quick too. What I mean, I like the three steps I would imagine as a part of the plan. You're also doing employee training as a part of that plan. And then as some of the services that you offer, one of the services in particular is probably during the analytical phase of the services that you bring, which is.
00:18:11 Speaker 2
Penetration testing, things like that.
00:18:14 Speaker 2
But that's that's all part of those that three-step process I would imagine.
00:18:19 Speaker 4
Yeah, that's going to be penetration testing is very important. We bring in elite ethical hackers to show you what what a bad guy would do if they if they found their way into your network or came across your.
00:18:31 Speaker 4
Your digital footprint, for whatever reason, and then using that as an opportunity to further tighten those.
00:18:37 Speaker 4
Controls, so follow following a road map for cyber risk management. The first things you're going to do, the first things you're going to do is is put in those controls, put in those day-to-day operations that make it harder for an attacker, and then we want to simulate it through a through a penetration test to say, all right, how?
00:18:57 Speaker 4
Now that we think we have our defenses ready, you know our IT team has has taken these measures and and put in these protocols. Let's test it. Let's let's see how we're doing and those are really good learning experiences as well to to find the holes and to to improve those areas.
00:19:17 Speaker 1
Matt, do we engage you through one digital or is a a prospective client of yours call you directly?
00:19:23 Speaker 4
Always happy to loop in Jeff and one digital, but yeah, you can find us at optimized cyber.com if you just want more information, have a quick question. Anything like that. You know we're not billing by the hour or by the minute, so feel free to reach out. Happy to. Happy to talk to anybody about, you know, meet them where they are today and their cyber risk.
00:19:43 Speaker 4
And and and help them improve it if you if you're down the path a little bit and you've spent some money in the IT security realm and you want to evaluate.
00:19:54 Speaker 4
How well you're doing your bang for buck?
00:19:56 Speaker 4
Let's hop on a call and talk about it.
00:19:58 Speaker 4
Or.
00:19:58 Speaker 4
If you've buried your head in the sand because.
00:20:01 Speaker 4
You know these Hemsworth movies and the Liam Neeson stuff is just too scary, I can assure you that that managing cyber risk is not as difficult, and it's not as expensive as as the majority of clients out there.
00:20:16 Speaker 4
And the business benefits are are extraordinary because when you do have that cyber incident, if you're resilient and you're operational the next day.
00:20:25 Speaker 4
It's a blip on the radar, you know it's a bad blip, but it's a it's a speed bump. You know. It's a it's a head on collision. If you're, if your company can't operate for 45 days, something like that. And and ultimately, you know, we view ourselves as.
00:20:42 Speaker 4
What I get to do when I wake up every day is help people protect their American dream, help them protect their businesses. And you know, I'm very lucky to to be able to do that.
00:20:53 Speaker 2
Awesome. So we'll definitely put Matt's contact info in the show notes for both the this podcast and the one we did earlier as well for kind of personal cyber reliability. If you're just coming in, this is round two. We had Matt in earlier as well talking about personal cyber.
00:21:14 Speaker 2
Exposure and and risk management. So that's a great podcast to go back to and listen to as well. So Matt, we're going to throw your information in the show notes anywhere else like.
00:21:26 Speaker 2
LinkedIn or anywhere else that we can find your company? Or is it primarily at your website and then your your e-mail address is that OK?
00:21:35 Speaker 4
Yeah, just LinkedIn optimize cyber.com and you can you can read some more, but you know.
00:21:43 Speaker 4
Reading that stuff's boring. Let's have a conversation and figure out how we can help.
00:21:47 Speaker 2
Great. Any final questions? Nate, you've been off for quiet this this round.
00:21:53 Speaker 3
No, I you know it's only because we received one of the rough educations where we had a a breach.
00:22:03 Speaker 3
This was back in whenever it was Jeff, like 2020-2021.
00:22:08 Speaker 2
Yeah, right.
00:22:10 Speaker 3
And so we learned the hard way how to harden. Now, we didn't lose.
00:22:16 Speaker 3
To our I don't believe in that case. We lost any financial loss, but it was a we had to notify, you know, people whose information we had. There was just a process. But we've hardened up since then and.
00:22:30 Speaker 3
I think a lot of that was password based. There were just too many password, 1 emails within our system that allowed people to get in and potentially wreck havoc.
00:22:43 Speaker 4
Great example mate. That's a security control that doesn't cost any. You're not spending any new money to fix that. That's just a configuration we need to go and set up and and honestly, a lot of the gains are it's probably 70 to 80% of our road map are things that you can go turn on today for free that will improve your your cyber.
00:23:03 Speaker 4
Cyber risk standing and I'll one not to not to make this even more dour, Nate, but.
00:23:11 Speaker 4
There there was a 60 minutes clip about ransomware back in 2017. Something like that. And at the time all the attackers were asking for 60 grand and and that was the ransom and the clip. They said, you know, 60 grand they found is the the sweet spot where people would would.
00:23:30 Speaker 4
OK. And and.
00:23:33 Speaker 4
They reran that and I believe 2022 or 2023.
00:23:38 Speaker 4
The same the same clip.
00:23:40 Speaker 4
And that aged very, very poorly, because the average ransom request now is in the millions.
00:23:47 Speaker 4
Frankly, these attackers, you know, some kid in in Uzbekistan who joins a ransomware.
00:23:48
From Google.
00:23:53 Speaker 4
Thing.
00:23:54 Speaker 4
They had no idea that they could ask American companies for $70 million and that and that people would pay 50, right, that they would send them $50 million in Bitcoin. So gone up a lot and mitigating that exposure, transferring that risk with the right cyber insurance limits and you know, stay on top of it.
00:24:15 Speaker 4
Folks, it's been a few years since you've evaluated this. Get back in there because the the.
00:24:21 Speaker 4
The bad guys are improving every day.
00:24:23 Speaker 1
Sir, I can't imagine, yeah.
00:24:25
Yep.
00:24:26 Speaker 2
Very good. So probably not a a question of if it's when is that right, Matt? I mean we can all kind of assume that this is going to be our world at some point.
00:24:37 Speaker 4
Yeah, this will happen at some point to everyone. You want to be one of the organizations that this happens once every 20 years, once every 30 years rather than every two or three years a you save a lot of money, but B.
00:24:52 Speaker 4
You know, we'll see, we see other companies dropping some of these smaller businesses from their supply chain because of cyber risks, which are real risks. And I understand why why some of the bigger companies have had to do that. But you know, it breaks our heart to.
00:25:09 Speaker 4
To see small businesses suffering like this and and frankly, I don't think it's fair to them that this is a reality, but it is a reality and we need to manage this so that you can sell more, keep your current clients, sell more into the future because people are going to be auditing, cybersecurity, cyber risk programs before they're going to let you come.
00:25:29 Speaker 4
Can be a provider for.
00:25:31 Speaker 4
Some of the some of the big players. So there's there's growth opportunities here if we want to be glass half full and and opportunities certainly to save to save save the company financial losses prevent financial losses.
00:25:50 Speaker 2
Awesome, Matt. Thank you for your expertise and joining us here today. Sure appreciate it again, all of our listeners if this is something.
00:26:00 Speaker 2
And piques your interest, which it certainly should. Maybe one of the reasons all of us have been quiet is because we're thinking about.
00:26:07 Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah. You gotta measure with that.
00:26:08 Speaker 2
Our own situation, so Matt, thanks for dominating the conversation today. That was good. And then we'll, yeah, feel free to reach out to any one of us. We can put you in touch with Matt, but otherwise we will be sure to post Matt's information in the show notes of both of these episodes that we just just went through on cyber liability. So thanks for joining us.
00:26:14 Speaker 1
Right.
00:26:29 Speaker 2
And make it a great day.
00:26:32
Thank you.
00:26:36 Speaker 1
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