In this episode, The Expert Network Team delves into the crucial topic of cyber liability and personal cyber exposure, guided by insights from Matt Quammen at Optimize Cyber. Jeff, Karl and Nate with their guest discuss the pressing importance of cyber risk management for both businesses and individuals, emphasizing the need for proactive measures to guard against cyber threats. From vulnerabilities in social media, home devices, and vehicles to protecting digital identities and financial security, we explore the many facets of cyber safety. Tune in to learn practical strategies for building robust cyber risk management plans and safeguarding your digital life. As a quick reminder, the Expert Network Team provides free consultations. We would love the opportunity to be of service to you or someone you care about. Just scroll the liner notes to contact one of our experts or today’s guest. And please share this podcast with anyone who you think might find it interesting. As always, it is good to have an expert on your side. — Today’s guest: Matt Quammen Optimize Cyber
00:00:00 Speaker 1
Welcome to the expert Network team podcast.
00:00:22 Speaker 2
Well.
00:00:23 Speaker 2
Listeners welcome back to the ex, your expert Team Network podcast. Got a full house here this afternoon. Just want to make sure that we introduce everyone who might be just listening to the podcast as opposed to viewing it on YouTube. It is available there on YouTube, but.
00:00:41 Speaker 2
Yeah, we've got a full house here today.
00:00:45 Speaker 2
To my right here in the house at A and I financial, the headquarters of is Carl Frank, principal owner of A and I financial. Great to have you here today. Thank you very much for hosting me on this cold winter day.
00:00:56 Speaker 1
Hi Jeff. How are you man?
00:01:00 Speaker 1
Absolutely.
00:01:04 Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, on the western slope, we got Nathan Merrill representing good speed in Merrill. Nathan, thanks for being here today.
00:01:11 Speaker 3
Principal owner of a big mortgage.
00:01:14 Speaker 2
Ohh yeah, good. So you're in debt. You're one of those fools. All right, way to go.
00:01:17 Speaker 3
Yeah, but my dream home, though, out here on the Western slope. So it's all good. It was worthwhile.
00:01:24 Speaker 2
Awesome. Looking forward to seeing it sometime soon. Yeah, that'd be great.
00:01:26 Speaker 1
We'll come Sunday on our way to mountain biking.
00:01:30 Speaker 2
Yes, and without further ado, our guest on the expert Team Network Podcast today is Matt Kuhlman, friend acquaintance of mine. I would just say Matt is probably going to be the best at introducing himself, but the topic.
00:01:50 Speaker 2
Today, and probably in one other podcast here down the road, is going to be cyber liability. And so we don't claim to be experts really at.
00:02:01
A.
00:02:01 Speaker 2
Whole lot, but Cyber certainly isn't. Isn't one of those things. And so we bring in experts when it comes to things that we don't know much about. And that's Matt. So I've been working with Matt for quite a while here. He really has served our clients very, very well in the services.
00:02:09 Speaker 1
Sure.
00:02:20 Speaker 2
That his company brings to the marketplace to help.
00:02:24 Speaker 2
Really shore up cyber exposure and and best practices when it comes to putting yeah, cyber risk at Bay and I'll have Matt kind of take it from here but Matt comes to us from Sioux Falls SD today and Matt thanks for joining us.
00:02:44 Speaker 4
Absolutely, Jeff. Thanks for having.
00:02:46 Speaker 2
You got it. Appreciate it. Well, Matt, if you wouldn't mind just kicking us off a little bit, tell us a little bit about you also optimize cyber, which is a company that you own along with your partner and just an overview of kind of the services that you bring and and then maybe introduce the topic.
00:03:07 Speaker 2
Which is going to be kind of personal cyber liability or personal cyber exposure here for for this this round so Mac take.
00:03:17
Wait.
00:03:18 Speaker 4
Absolutely. Thanks again for having me, Matt Kwamen optimized cyber. We are a cyber risk management firm. Basically what we do is we help help organizations wrap their heads around cyber manage, you know everything from their compliance to their day-to-day security operations and mitigate.
00:03:38 Speaker 4
Exposure as much as we can. Then we work with folks like Jeff over at one digital to help clients get the right coverage in place. But the reality is you can't. You can't insure away all of cyber risk and even if you have insurance.
00:03:54 Speaker 4
Not having an incident is is always a beautiful day. Those are painful. Even if you do have insurance, though, they are exponentially more painful if you don't have insurance. So talk to your broker today if you if you don't have coverage. So what do we do? We help people stand up security programs. We help people test their programs.
00:04:15 Speaker 4
I've been in technology the last 14 years, cybersecurity the last 7, and you guys mentioned that that cybersecurity cyber risk is not a native language or or or or something you guys consider yourself experts in. That's fine. Honestly, in my opinion it it hasn't gotten it hasn't become a real risk to businesses or individuals.
00:04:37 Speaker 4
Until 8-9 years ago, so it's a it's an emerging.
00:04:41 Speaker 4
The issue people would dispute that right? There's been a cyber security industry long before then, but where attacks got real, especially for mid market and below organizations is really eight years ago and furthermore up until about 2021 you could get cyber insurance without any security. So a lot of risk managers were were buying a cyber insurance.
00:05:02 Speaker 4
Policy and ignoring cyber risks on the prevention or proactive side, so it's a it's a fast moving industry. My co-founder has been in this industry 22 years, if you count his time inside a bank as an IT director at a bank.
00:05:21 Speaker 4
Which I certainly count, but six times he's taken teams out to DEFCON and all six times they finished on the podium. That's like the world's biggest hacker convention and has been been helping everyone from.
00:05:35 Speaker 4
I don't know two person, three person manufacturing company in East Tennessee. That's one of our clients. And you know all the way up to Fortune 20 large enterprise so.
00:05:48 Speaker 4
Thrilled to to have been able to partner up with him and and be able to share some of the insights. And I know today we want to talk about about individuals and what you need to do with your household because especially for all the parents out there, I know we're all worried about kids and technology. You're worried about people stealing your money.
00:06:07 Speaker 4
And you're worried about?
00:06:10 Speaker 4
Bad things that can happen. So let's let's let's dive into those topics and see if we can help some. Some people wrap their heads around what they need to do to.
00:06:19 Speaker 4
Protect their own assets.
00:06:22 Speaker 3
Yeah, I'll. I'll launch out here if I can, because this is something I've I've.
00:06:27 Speaker 3
Had my I'm sure each of us have had our own concerns about, but you know you have the.
00:06:31 Speaker 3
Usual.
00:06:32 Speaker 3
Firewalls and antivirus and what other sorts of software you, you know, put on your computer to protect the computer and protect from intrusion there. Is that a bigger risk or is it the social engineering, the phishing and the?
00:06:48 Speaker 3
The click here type of emails, you know that people in your household might get that are the biggest exposure to risk and like.
00:06:56 Speaker 3
What? What's your approach to mitigating both the social engineering versus the technology side?
00:07:04 Speaker 4
I'm personally I'm much more concerned about the social engineering as a parent. Luckily my kids are too young for this, but but they'll get there some someday soon, and there's real horror stories out there about what bad people are doing. Sex, extortion, type type situations where they're inducing.
00:07:25 Speaker 4
Teenagers in a lot of cases to send, send like.
00:07:30 Speaker 4
Inappropriate photos to them and then blackmailing individual teenagers to send money to criminal gangs. This has been exploded. Some guy got busted somewhere in Africa and they found that he had.
00:07:46 Speaker 4
I believe he had $100 million in cash in his house, so this is a a pretty explosive one. We gotta we gotta lock it down for kids who are maybe not mature enough to to understand, you know, hey, I'm playing video games and somebody's chatting with me.
00:08:03 Speaker 4
Says they're a 13 year old girl. Well.
00:08:06 Speaker 4
That that's not verified. That could be anybody, right? So either for young kids, disabling those chat functions and things like that, I was talking to a neighbor about this fairly recently and disabling those chat functions on some of these video games because there's a lot of social engineering that happens there. And then obviously, we all know about social media.
00:08:28 Speaker 4
The dangers that can happen there. So preparing kids. I don't know that anyone has a has a foolproof.
00:08:35 Speaker 4
System I can tell you what my plan is and my plan is to key log my kids devices when they're old enough to have them, not from.
00:08:46 Speaker 3
What does that mean?
00:08:48 Speaker 4
By the by key log made I mean everything, every button they click.
00:08:53 Speaker 4
Is logged and we can go back and audit it and see.
00:08:57 Speaker 4
The reason I don't think of this as a as an intrusion on their privacy, or certainly it's not my intention to do that, but they need to understand two things. You know a we're here to protect, protect them and to help them use technology responsibly. But B.
00:09:16 Speaker 4
Help them understand that that is being logged by somebody somewhere. If you wouldn't want your parents to see it, if you wouldn't want it on the front page of of the New York Times.
00:09:26 Speaker 4
Don't be posting it on social media because effectively that is logged somewhere and could come back to haunt you, either by people extorting you for money.
00:09:37 Speaker 4
Or, you know, damaging your future. So I'm definitely the number one thing is talk to your kids, train them, train, train elderly as well because the same thing happens to elderly victims, people calling them.
00:09:52 Speaker 4
Threatening their kids, threatening or grandkids.
00:09:57 Speaker 3
Well, one example is I think it was my my mother clicked on something and it downloaded something to her computer and then it said ohh you, you know? And then someone approached her as a Microsoft something or the other and said put you in your bank information to pay and we'll download the fix to this or something like that.
00:10:16 Speaker 3
And she did that, and pretty quickly, she realized it was the wrong idea. And so she had to shut down the bank account and all that sort of stuff. So I agree with you on the elderly, and I have similar concerns for my kids. But you said educate your kids. Are there programs or modules or things that can be purchased that would be a curriculum for family?
00:10:39 Speaker 3
Cyber security education, or is that a big vacuum?
00:10:45 Speaker 4
Unfortunately, it's a big vacuum. There's not a lot of great training. There should be better, wiser. Wiz ER is a free cybersecurity training company. They talk more about like what? What I think you said it was your mother or mother-in-law where who was scammed out of her banking information.
00:11:06 Speaker 4
They talk a lot more about those types of attacks than they do. Maybe the social media training, but we need to train on on on all fronts. So I I wish there was a great repository I could send you to. I would check out wiser and if I think of anything else, I'll send it to you guys and you guys can upload it to the.
00:11:26 Speaker 4
You know, put it in the chat of of this episode.
00:11:29 Speaker 3
Because as as far as I'm aware, I mean, schools don't necessarily teach. Cyber schools don't really teach much of anything, but I won't go down that rabbit hole.
00:11:39 Speaker 3
But of of essential life skills, things like how to properly engage with the Internet and the World Wide Web, there just doesn't seem to be any meaningful training unless you get in a corporate organization that has something that is risk mitigating and risk management oriented.
00:11:59 Speaker 4
Yeah, it drives me crazy because especially when you think of of things like, you know, body image issues, especially teenage girls.
00:12:09
This.
00:12:10 Speaker 4
And I don't understand why they don't do this training right. They need to understand that the models you see on Instagram that you're comparing yourself to.
00:12:20 Speaker 4
Well, she just had a full makeup team for three hours, and they did a photo shoot for 10 hours, and then they edited it, right? They touched it up. They they did the, you know, whatever. Whatever they do to edit those photos. And now you see this, this picture, and you go and and these teenage girls say, wow, I don't look like her.
00:12:41 Speaker 4
I'll never look like her. I'm not beautiful.
00:12:43 Speaker 4
Well, she doesn't look like that, right? So I don't understand why they don't do training of like.
00:12:50 Speaker 4
Here's a candid photo of your favorite celebrity right what she he or she looks like as a human.
00:12:56 Speaker 4
Here's what they look like on the Internet once the marketing agencies have spent 40 hours adjusting this photo and perfecting this photo. So yeah, that's.
00:13:07 Speaker 3
Although I think my new iPhone 16 Pro has a Ronald Ryan Reynolds filter on it to make me look more like.
00:13:15 Speaker 3
Ryan Reynolds, so.
00:13:18
Yes.
00:13:18 Speaker 3
That's just a joke, but.
00:13:20 Speaker 4
Well, it's working because you look just like.
00:13:22 Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, way to go.
00:13:23 Speaker 3
Nate he he's my. I'd like. I'd like him to be my doppelganger, but anyway.
00:13:29 Speaker 4
To go back to your your other question about some of the technical controls and and people installing malware and things like that, you're right. Home devices I I'm more worried on the social engineering side, but home devices are are obviously very vulnerable. It actually becomes an attack vector for for companies too because they get on to.
00:13:48 Speaker 4
Your your kids playing Fortnite at home? They get under your home network, they get under your corporate laptop. Never let your kids game on your corporate laptop would be another piece of advice. But that's one way they get into to companies. I've seen those attacks, but the same stuff that you can apply to businesses, whether it's.
00:14:10 Speaker 4
Whether it's endpoint protection, right, anti antivirus type software, I would look at somebody like ESET which is fantastic. Komodo. It's fantastic depending on the operating system you're using, but.
00:14:18 Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:14:22 Speaker 3
What about VPNs?
00:14:24 Speaker 4
VPN's are great, but that's more for privacy.
00:14:29 Speaker 4
And people not being able to add track you and things like that. So I'm a big fan of VPNs, but they don't do a whole lot from a security standpoint of of protecting your network. One thing that that I like that that is a favorite of mine is setting up your home Wi-Fi so that only approved devices.
00:14:49 Speaker 4
Can log on.
00:14:52 Speaker 4
So that way you you get an alert if anybody tries to connect to your network. That's not, you know the 12 normal devices that are in your household. Maybe your kid has friends over you let them on the network or family over you let them on the network, but you don't want it open to just somebody you know your neighbors logging on anybody in the neighborhood.
00:15:11 Speaker 4
Somebody pulls up in a van with a parabolic antenna and.
00:15:17 Speaker 4
Start spying on your your house and stealing bank credentials and things like that so.
00:15:21 Speaker 3
And that's even possible with like password security or.
00:15:26 Speaker 4
Absolutely, yeah.
00:15:27 Speaker 3
They'd have to break that code somehow, correct? Or is there a back door into those sorts of things?
00:15:32 Speaker 4
There's almost always a backdoor in around that router. Most people aren't keeping their home routers patched, and a lot of home routers are just not that secure to begin with, so passwords not entirely enough. This is a big way that you can reduce that attack surface just by limiting who can log on to your network so.
00:15:53 Speaker 4
For for securing at home.
00:15:56 Speaker 4
Endpoint Protection ESET, Komodo, Microsoft Defender, Sentinel one things like that.
00:16:04 Speaker 4
Configuring your network get in touch with the security engineer. Pay you know, pay them 800 bucks to do it one time and and set this up and show you how to use.
00:16:13 Speaker 4
It so nobody.
00:16:14 Speaker 4
Else can log on to harden your network that way, and then configuring that home router. Having an actual secure home router.
00:16:25 Speaker 4
Now let's talk about maybe the most important topic and and Carl, I think this will be most interesting for you is.
00:16:33 Speaker 4
What do we do from a financial perspective, right. Right.
00:16:36 Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. If something bad happens, how can we be protected? That's what I'm worried about. I mean, we're all vulnerable. We can all have kids that are going to make mistakes or elderly people or even ourselves might click a link in an e-mail and we go. Ohh, shoot. It's too late. What did I do? What can I do now?
00:16:37 Speaker 4
A lot of people.
00:16:53 Speaker 4
Well, make your kids spend cash.
00:16:56 Speaker 4
I'm a big believer in that because I think somebody, somebody has pointed out that if you spend cash, people are more likely to save because they can feel the pain of.
00:17:06 Speaker 4
Literally forking over their cash. But then when it comes to their bank accounts, just like your home network, your bank account can be configured work with a regional credit union regional bank, somebody that you can go in and.
00:17:18 Speaker 4
Have a relationship.
00:17:19 Speaker 4
With.
00:17:20 Speaker 4
And set up the account with them. Turn off ACH's, turn off wires. There's no reason your teenager needs that.
00:17:26 Speaker 4
There's no reason elderly folks need that, largely.
00:17:31 Speaker 4
Another thing I like to do is set up notification so.
00:17:35 Speaker 4
When?
00:17:38 Speaker 4
You know name when your when your mom's account tried to wire her money out because she gave away her credentials. If you had these notifications set up now, you get a text message every time there's a debit or credit on her account, so you can check those things for for elderly folks, you can do that for.
00:17:57 Speaker 4
Young folks too.
00:17:58 Speaker 4
Some other things don't leave all your money in one account.
00:18:03 Speaker 4
A. Leaving it in a checking. It's not the most useful, right? We.
00:18:07 Speaker 4
Go make some interest on your money and and things like that, but it also becomes an attack vector. If you've got 200 grand sitting in a bank account that's liquid and can go out the door any moment, they can go out the door any moment, right? So.
00:18:21 Speaker 3
What about linking accounts though?
00:18:23 Speaker 4
Big fan of linking accounts so you can set up. You can set up a, a checking and a savings where the the money can move within 2 seconds. If you need it, set up a money market. Those are largely as liquid as anything else, but then also you know if if you're if you've got.
00:18:43 Speaker 4
In excess of 250 grand in liquid, you got to make sure that you're staying under the FDIC limits in case your bank ever has trouble, but you don't get reimbursed for that fraud. If that money's gone, the FDIC is. If the bank fails, not if not if you failed, right, not if your money gets stolen. So I like to point people towards a a banker or a financial advisor.
00:19:04 Speaker 4
Say.
00:19:06 Speaker 4
Let's make this money work for you. It'll also have the benefit of like, let's say, Carl's managing my money. And and I it's it'll liquid for me, right. I can't touch it. So if somebody steals my credentials, they can't touch it. I have to call Carl. We set, maybe we set up a relationship where.
00:19:26 Speaker 4
Hey, unless I come into the office, never take the money out of the brokerage account because.
00:19:31 Speaker 4
This is Money I want to leave and and have more long term.
00:19:36 Speaker 1
I got the great idea for individuals and families absolutely always, always set it up. I call it small town security for big time criminals. Just make it more personal. I really like that.
00:19:50
Yeah.
00:19:51 Speaker 4
Yeah.
00:19:52 Speaker 2
Matt's got this little thing in front of us. We all have one or two of these cell phones. Some of us do some minor banking transactions on apps, things.
00:20:02 Speaker 2
That I know we've talked a little bit about, you know, the home network firewalls, so on and so forth. Anything in particular on our mobile devices that we should be concerned about or anything that we can install onto those or is it just common common sense with what are your thoughts?
00:20:23 Speaker 4
There are things you can install. Let me look one up quick. This will these these iPhones, they're so handy. You can look up information.
00:20:32 Speaker 1
I've heard that.
00:20:34 Speaker 4
So as far as how how concerned you should be.
00:20:38 Speaker 4
Not a ton, obviously it can happen, I mean.
00:20:45 Speaker 4
Yeah, there's there's software out there where people can hijack your phone pretty easily, but it is quite controlled and you know Apple.
00:20:54 Speaker 4
G apple Google.
00:20:56 Speaker 4
They are incentivized to prevent that from happening.
00:21:00 Speaker 4
But a couple of mobile device endpoint protection software pieces. Lookout excuse me, is one of them spelled one word lookout and then I verify is another mobile device protection company always making sure that you have multi factor authentication turned on.
00:21:22 Speaker 4
For your e-mail, your personal e-mail accounts, any account of yours, and definitely your bank accounts is critical. Maybe the most critical thing you can do so probably should have mentioned that a long time ago on this on this podcast. But.
00:21:39 Speaker 4
So and and just like we were talking about with teenagers, keep in mind these iPhone, you know, your phones being tracked.
00:21:47 Speaker 4
Not. Not even just nefarious people, but people who want to sell ads and things like that. They are tracking everything. And you got to be mindful of of what you're doing with your phone. Make good choices.
00:22:00 Speaker 1
And rules for.
00:22:01 Speaker 2
Life. Yeah, this is great. Fantastic. I got one last question maybe before we land the plane on this particular topic around individual cyber safety and security, what about what's your, what's your thoughts about you know again all the all the computers now that are in vehicles?
00:22:02 Speaker 1
We'll do that.
00:22:21 Speaker 2
We got a lot of our personal information tied to those now any anything in particular there that you're seeing emerge right now that the?
00:22:32 Speaker 2
Driver or owner of you know, some of the some of this type of technology can make sure is in place what any any thoughts there or is this kind of the new kind of horizon new frontier as far as any type of cyber security as it relates to our vehicles?
00:22:49 Speaker 4
Well, I'm going to warn Nate and tell him to go on mute before I start talking about this because I have.
00:22:53 Speaker 4
A feeling this.
00:22:54 Speaker 4
Will set him.
00:22:54 Speaker 4
Off, but cars?
00:22:57 Speaker 4
You want to talk about your iPhone collecting a lot of data. Cars are collecting more than anyone.
00:23:02 Speaker 3
Like my 1987 Mercedes.
00:23:05 Speaker 4
No, no.
00:23:06 Speaker 2
Oh, not that one.
00:23:08 Speaker 4
Driving but driving old cars isn't going to be a solution forever, right? Because the new ones are going to be the old ones. They are tracking everything like you wouldn't believe where you go.
00:23:20 Speaker 4
They're they're listening in the cars. When you read these privacy policies that that you have to sign off on when you buy or lease a new car.
00:23:31 Speaker 4
Even a used car, you know, because these systems have been around since at least 2015, the amount of data they're collecting and then selling to advertisers is shocking and horrifying. If any car companies out there are listening, there is a big market for people who don't want you tracking us and who don't want.
00:23:51 Speaker 4
Everything to be tech enabled, where you sense the key. There was nothing wrong with the car key. OK, let's go back to a key, because what happens if you if your technology stops working, none of us can?
00:24:03 Speaker 4
Drive like these cars. Hey, stop tracking us. It's ridiculous and horrible. B, If we can't use a car because your network is down, your technology gets gets breached. What kind of lawsuit is that going to be? It's going to be a massive class action lawsuit if people.
00:24:22 Speaker 4
Can't get to work.
00:24:23 Speaker 4
You know, ransomware attacks average down times like 20 days. So if people can't drive their cars for 20 days, that ransom is going to be a billion dollars that they're going to have to pay. And the class action lawsuit. Who knows? But hopefully it's 100 billion.
00:24:39 Speaker 4
There is no no need for you guys to be stealing all of our data and invading people's privacy via our cars like.
00:24:45 Speaker 3
This is there a way to opt out?
00:24:47 Speaker 4
I don't think so. I've looked, can't really opt out. You can limit some things. Honestly, we need more. We need more states to take action. And establishing privacy. Bill of Rights. Type things where?
00:25:03 Speaker 4
You, as a resident of XYZ State can go and say.
00:25:08 Speaker 4
Not, you know, you're not allowed to watch us, so I hope.
00:25:13 Speaker 4
Some some privacy related legislation comes down the Pike. Don't think people have really addressed automakers in those yet, and they definitely need to.
00:25:23 Speaker 2
Good. Yeah, no doubt about it, no doubt about it.
00:25:26 Speaker 1
I had never thought.
00:25:27 Speaker 1
That.
00:25:28 Speaker 2
Well, very good. Hopefully our listeners and have have enjoyed this this session.
00:25:34 Speaker 2
You know we each.
00:25:34 Speaker 2
Have obviously a lot of clients that are personal type profiles and and personal consumers of technology and users of technology and so on. This has been really, really helpful.
00:25:48 Speaker 2
Gosh, I'm just sitting here making a bunch of notes myself and this has been really.
00:25:53 Speaker 2
Very good, Matt. Thank you so much for joining us today, Matt, we sure appreciate the the expertise that you have brought and we'll look forward to connecting here in the future with with several liability as it relates to our businesses because obviously we do have a, a pretty good size.
00:26:13 Speaker 2
Listener base to that owned businesses, so stay tuned for that one and until then make it a great day and we'll see you soon.
00:26:23 Speaker 1
Very beautiful day.
00:26:24 Speaker 3
Thanks.
00:26:26 Speaker 1
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